Rodies Story: Understanding and Supporting Dyslexic Employees

Rodie (00:23)

Thanks, Nic.

Nic (00:24)

Mate, we've known each other for going on 25 years, but today we're going to explore a little bit more about your story for our listeners. So before we dive into the detail, how do you usually describe or introduce yourself?

Rodie (00:36)

Yeah, thanks Nic. yeah, we have known each other for quite a lengthy period of time.

I've been in the sort of registered nurse and paramedic for just on 20 years now with exclusive experience probably in the non-emerge industry and in pre-hospital settings as well.

Nic (00:51)

So you've spoken to me about being dyslexic and having that as part of your story over the last sort of two decades that we've been friends. But in your own words, how do you describe being dyslexic?

Rodie (01:01)

dyslexic is a pretty broad term these days because obviously, there's two different types of dyslexia. So you've got the dyslexia, which, I was diagnosed with at the age of seven. and then you've got a newly diagnosed one called dyscalculia, which is more mathematics based now. if I was to be basically, reassessed now, I'd probably fit in both categories. dyslexia as a whole is more of a learning disability.

with me it sort of used to affect more reading and writing. So it took a numerous amount of years to try and get through that with you know numerous tutoring and other bits and pieces there as well. Whereas the mathematics side of it is not really my...

strong point I'd say so which you're well aware of Nic

Nic (01:42)

you're right, you're right. What are some of the biggest misconceptions then that you've come across about dyslexia in the workplace?

Rodie (01:48)

So the biggest misconception which has happened probably within my working career is more that The dyslexia is more of like obviously reading it once I start but other people sort of think that low IQ Not being able to do certain tasks or having to basically give us Minimal tasks and other bits and pieces like that, which is not the case at all We're more than capable of doing it

It's just more sometimes we require probably sometimes prompting or modifications to a particular job. Say for example, where

there's multiple steps you might have to break it down to say five or six steps as opposed to 20 steps the main misconception in the workplace is like you might hear someone sort of joking about dyslexia. It's not till you pull them up and say, hey,

it's more sort of like actually learning as opposed to what you're coming out with. So there's a lot of, probably people's ideas of dyslexia is slightly different out there. where people sort of pick fun on dyslexic people, which is not really the right thing to do.

Nic (02:48)

how do you overcome those jokes in the workplace?

Rodie (02:51)

when it does come up, I sort of re-educate them basically and say, look, I'm actually dyslexic and people sort of take a step back and go, hey, are you actually dyslexic? I'm going, yeah, suffered with it basically since I was born. dyslexia is one of those things which you don't just develop overnight, you're born with it.

from the research I've worked out, normally comes from either parent and you'll probably find it, know, sort of things pass further there. So it's not just something which just happens overnight. you know, for someone to suddenly come up to you and go, I'm dyslexic and you go, okay, when did that happen? You you've got to go through all the diagnosis and stuff like that. So, you know, so a lot of re-education.

people sort of think that, for example, you might read a sentence, like, for example, and all of a sudden the words become jumbled up. so with me, it's more sort of like if you sort of read a textbook, for me in the healthcare profession, so say if I read like a, a textbook on, mental health, like after probably half an hour to an hour, like I'll get quite tired. And sometimes

it might take me multiple goes to sort of remember that information. So it's more sort of just telling people that. when you're learning a new task, instead just learning it, straight off the bat, it might take a few guys, probably by the third attempt or fourth attempt, you might get it. So it's just more sort of repetition and practicing.

So once you explain that to them, they sort of get a better grasp on it.

Nic (04:17)

Okay.

So you've mentioned to me as well in the past that you've had managers often ask how you can support you. What's the real answer behind that? Like how can people actually support someone with dyslexia?

Rodie (04:28)

a lot of managers when you sort of they sort of ask you or you bring the topic up to them don't properly know how to cater for you the best way to describe it so For me personally, I sort of asked for additional support So say for example if I'm writing a report I might send it across to you say hey Nic Can you actually have a read of this and just make sure it makes sense because I'm like, you know, write

same sentence five times but in different ways or for example the punctuation might not be there or full stops or commas or other bits and pieces so it's more sort of that or being given extra time to do certain tasks so say for example you've given me a deadline so I might turn around and say hey I actually need time to research this and actually prepare the report and that's this sort of stuff

It's just not going to be happening within an hour. So give me the course of the day to be able to do that type thing. when the manager does ask, how can I support? So I of asked for more assistive technology. So use of Grammarly, chat GPT is sort of quite good now.

so yeah, obviously, when the manager sort of asked me, you know, what can we put in place, it's sort of, you know, Grammarly, chat, GTP

anything mathematics based use of calculators, that sort of stuff, like actually having the processes in place. most managers are good, but in saying that a lot of them are sort of poorly educated around dyslexia or dyscalculia for that aspect, certainly in the workplaces I've been involved in, it's an issue sort of.

Mentioned the topic of dyslexia is one of those things where they sort of turn around and go well I know nothing about that. You you're have to tell me bit more information so like one of the recent organizations

I was involved with brought up the topic to my boss and sort of said you know if I'm dyslexic and He was sort of like oh, yeah, sort of know a bit about that as an occupational therapist You know how do you want me to accommodate you and I said look as long as you literally

read over my work, just make sure it makes sense to you and if need be just like, just make modifications to it. And he was more than happy with that, So it actually made sense to the reader.

it all depends on the manager and how much time they can actually spend with you or whether another coworker can give you assistance in that sort of regard. every workplace is different. But obviously in the workplaces I've been involved in, like with police, nursing, even paramedics, it really depends on the organisation. particularly in a fast paced environment, you might not get necessarily get the supports.

as opposed to an office based scenario.

Nic (06:54)

I think from my perspective, it is dependent on the manager and their willingness to do the research and make sure that they have a better understanding of how they can support you as well. Obviously, asking the question of how I can support you is a good first step, but then going back and doing a little bit of research on how they can support their individual team member is vital, I find.

and it is 100 % up to that manager and how they're going to obviously support you there as well. you've worked in some pretty high pressure environments in emergency services. what was that like as someone with dyslexia?

Rodie (07:30)

Look it can be quite tricky particularly In like a time critical environment So when you're having to process a great deal information quickly that can sometimes become tricky like perfect example when you like as a paramedic you might get that three o'clock in the morning phone call you know you get called out and lots of stuff and then

you've got multiple sort of resources there. So you might have CFA, police, other bits and pieces. So like that. And then all of a sudden, end up with, two or three extra ambulances. So lots of things happening quickly and obviously lots of information being thrown around. So for me personally, I'll just try and sort of remain calm in that sort of scenario and just make sure.

I'm processing information correctly if I'm unsure I'll get the person to repeat that information. Look some people do get frustrated with you when you say hey can you

just repeat that just so I make sure I've got everything right. But once you've had your debriefing actually go through everything they're actually pretty good about it. I don't really disclose I'm dyslexic out in the field but

As I said, when you go through it and everyone's, heat of the moment, sometimes things get lost, particularly in those time critical moments. yeah, like the ways I sort of cover it up is if you're unsure, just get the question repeated or basically ask for further information or what have you. So normally you can get through it that way. like just reflecting back on, 20 odd years of work there.

there has been times where, a person might sort of, get under you, like, just know how to push the buttons and that can sort of bring your confidence levels down. So then you start doubting yourself and that's when you start sort of making those mistakes. So it's just sort of basically remaining calm and obviously just remaining confident that yes, you can do it, type things.

So I suppose being dyslexic is just having those coping mechanisms in place and just learning how to, handle those tricky situations, particularly time critical ones and going, hey, yes, I can do this. if I just give myself time to breathe in, basically work through the steps and go, you know, hey.

Nic (09:33)

Is there something that stands out to you as a challenging experience throughout your career?

Rodie (09:37)

probably CFA to be honest with you Nic, like things happen quite quickly with on the fire ground and You've got multiple personalities there which you you'll probably aware of you know, You when you sort of ask for information to be repeated or

What have you, know, people sometimes get frustrated and they walk off and storm off and sort of stuff and then you sort of turn around to the person beside you and go, what were they actually asking? So normally,

yeah, most people are pretty good. You can sort of work your way through it, that, yeah, definitely there's been times where, you know, things have gone south, whether that's been my fault or the other person's fault, you just gotta learn to.

basically accepted if that makes sense,

Nic (10:15)

were there moments where you felt supported or not supported with the systems in place being dyslexic?

Rodie (10:21)

the perfect example for me was as a graduate paramedic I didn't have the supports there. I thought they were there, but they clearly weren't. I sort of put my application like no different to everyone else. And so one of the things I've written down was actually, you go through the application process and you see that little box which says, do you have a disability?

So me personally, every time I put an application in, I read that going, look, do I disclose that I'm dyslexic or not? Because it's not actually a physical disability. It's more of a learning, difficulty than anything. So, sometimes I do tick that box, but when I did apply as a graduate paramedic, I did tick that box, in the little dropped in comes down and you say, dyslexia requiring additional time to, do your exams and tests and that sort of stuff.

you shoot the application off and away you go type thing. And then all of a sudden you get into the organisation, you got your uniform and everything else. And then, you sort of go home overnight, you prepare for the next day. And then all of a sudden it becomes too much. And you go up to the instructor and go, hey, look, I'm dyslexic. I'm not really coping. And then all of a sudden I turn around and go, oh, have you spoken to peer support? And you go,

Well, it's not really a peer support matter. It's more the fact that I just need some additional support. And they sort of look at you and go, Oh, have you discussed that with HR? So all of a sudden it becomes this, two on the throw type thing as opposed to actually going, Hey, we just need to put some additional supports and actually give this guy some help or this girl some help, you know? so with me, it was more the fact that HR hadn't relayed the information over to the learning and development team.

So those supports weren't in place. So the additional time actually having someone sit beside me and read me the questions and other bits and pieces like that. once those supports aren't there, the whole world just ain't crashing down. Then next minute you're being put off, road until you such time you can pass those milestone assessments. So that's like probably the worst case scenario when things go wrong. but when they do go right,

as I said, when you've got like Grammarly, you chat GPT and that sort of stuff in place and your calculator, well, I mean, you're fine. as I said, that's worst case scenario. So that did happen to me, unfortunately. so the point where I had to go through numerous like loopholes and, jump through the, you know, various red tapes and that sort of stuff just to get clearance.

in the finish it was more the fact that the supports

purely weren't there, despite me actually providing all the information to my employer.

Nic (12:45)

So you just mentioned that you had to jump through quite a number of hoops. What was that like for you at the time?

Rodie (12:50)

To be honest Nic, it was quite stressful. Probably for me personally, it was quite dark if I'm reflecting back on it. So affected me mentally. to the point where people saw me and actually go, hey, you're actually not well. So all of a sudden you're taking a big massive confidence hit. people go...

hey what happened to you as a graduate paramedic and you go look I don't want to talk about it and all of a sudden people are sort of speculating going you know he's pulled out and that sort of stuff which is not the case which is more the fact that you know all of sudden those support mechanisms weren't there and the came crashing down so I was just lucky with myself for example that I had people such as yourself I could talk to friends you know even

the organisation's peer support team and people external who'd been there and done that, which I could actually, chat to and actually get some guidance and help. Unfortunately for me, it was easier to walk away from the organisation at this time, just to obviously, get confidence back and then, whether I look back at it and, down the tracks, probably, a different subject, to be honest,

But yeah, so that's, as I said, that is worst case scenario when it goes south. at the moment, we've got a good organisation I'm currently working for with all the correct supports in place. So you've got your Grammarly and know, ChatGTP and that sort of stuff. things are going fine. But yeah, as I said, when it goes south, it really does hit you quite bad, you know. Particularly when you're in the doctor's office, mate, and you're...

you say, look, I'm not really coping too well. And they go, oh, you're suicidal. And you go, well, I'm not suicidal. It's just more the fact I need some additional help, everyone seems to jump down that thing. Like, it's probably a bit off topic here, Nic, but you know, it's always good to reach out and say, hey, are you actually okay? So we just like, celebrated, are you okay, Day? And, I sort of reflect back on that going, hey, I've been there,

not from a suicidal depression thing, it was just more the fact that my whole world just came crashing down. Like, you sort of set yourself a goal going, hey, yeah, I want to

be a paramedic. then, you know, all of sudden, Bain comes down, because particularly Bain dyslexia really does hurt. but yeah, hopefully, if someone's listening to this, yeah, don't be afraid to reach out and get that help and support.

Nic (15:03)

I couldn't agree more. Getting the help you need is vital. And checking in on your friends and family as well. know, making sure that you can ask those friends or family, hey are you okay? Or even if you haven't heard from them in a while or it's been a minute since you've spoken to them. It's always good to go, hey, how doing? What's going on? Let's have a chat. So yeah,

Rodie (15:24)

Yeah, definitely.

Nic (15:26)

so it's always good.

So in your experience then, what kind of support or accommodations actually make a difference? So you've touched on Grammarly, you've touched on ChatGTP DTP and having a calculator there for you in the workplace. Is there anything else that you really think could help someone with dyslexia?

Rodie (15:40)

everyone's different in terms of dyslexia. There's obviously different levels. I'd say if you're at TAFE or uni, definitely go talk to the wellbeing department or, I'm trying to think what it was at Monash Uni, think it was like student development hub or whatever you want to call it. So if you go chat to them and say, hey, look, I've got dyslexia, half the time they'll...

sit down with you, they'll come up with a learning plan to the point where they may send you off to a psychologist just to get some further information from them of how the university can support you. Definitely for me, the biggest thing which probably got me through nursing and even my paramedic qualification was just having that person sitting beside me, literally reading the questions out.

and then if need be just reading what I've written down on the page just so I make sure it makes sense to me. Even though in my head you might type it out on the keyboard and go, hey that makes sense, but in theory when they read it back to you, go, oh, that's not what I said at all. So definitely having someone just read over your work or what have you. For me personally, use of a laptop definitely helps in my day to day.

life now, you know, even back at, you know, high school, you know, if I reflect back on that, know, like, I think I was the only one in the class, Nic, with a laptop. that definitely helped in that regard. just like going back over notes and that sort of stuff. look, if you're sort of watching this and you do have dyslexia, I definitely recommend sort of, your laptop, your Grammarly.

calculator You know even your mobile phone these days like you can use that pretty much 99 % of the time for you, you you'd chat GPT or Any other apps which might be out there which I'm not even aware of so that's definitely helped in that regard so Yeah, like even just when you do your report writing

even university papers, I suppose, when you're submitting that, like even just having like I used to use the library to read over my assignments and they were really good. there's a thing in Microsoft Word, I'm not too sure if you use a Nic or not, but you can sort of have like track changes. So the library

used to go through that and read my assignments and then they would have the changes just beside so can go, yeah, okay, I agree with what you're saying or

how you might change that. So that was really effective in that regard. So look, if you're in the workplace and you have that option available I'll definitely use it. Yeah, as I said, every dyslexic's different. I wouldn't say I'm on the extreme level anymore, to be honest, compared to probably when I was seven years of age, a different story. Like I couldn't even read or write.

for example, but definitely now things have changed. like, just for me personally, like, the number of people I've encountered just in the workplace who are dyslexic and look, they don't, I don't know, they don't seem to have the supports in place. compared to me, I'm a bit more open where I'll ask for it, where you sort of see them sort of, struggle along.

So in my previous job, I'd be working with a driver and I was working with this one lady in particular who was dyslexic and she pulled out this map, right? And it was all sort

of sticky tape together and remember sitting there waiting to go to a particular hospital in Melbourne and I said, what are you doing? And she goes, oh, I'm just finding my way through Melbourne. go, yeah, but you've got GPS and you're phoned for that and

she was really embarrassed and she turned around to me and she goes, I'm dyslexic. And I said, yeah, but you don't have to struggle either. I'm dyslexic as well. there's this support you can put in place. definitely look, as I said, everyone's different, but definitely most people, most dyslexics will know what works for them. So for me, it's definitely the laptop, calculator, use of the reader or writer if I need to christ even if I have to send stuff to you, Nic can get you to read it,

which I've done in the past

Nic (19:28)

Yeah absolutely. Organizations...

need to kind of have that opportunity or to provide that opportunity to all of their employees anyway with accommodations by law. But it's taking that first step and having the psychological safety in place to allow your employees to feel safe enough to go, hey, I need additional accommodations because I'm dyslexic or I'm neurodiverse in some way or just in general to go.

I need more help with that and if you've got that in place then it's an amazing thing because you can then start to help your staff.

Rodie (19:59)

Look, I think even with

most people, it's a confidence thing to be honest with you. Like, probably, like even just out in the general public, when I'm out with the kids, for example, I might, go into a particular workplace and there'll be signs, but the person might be struggling and it's not till you actually talk to them and say, hey, is everything all right? And they go, I'm dyslexic. And you go, have you tried?

talking to your employer or whoever, three I see, two I see, for example. And a lot of them are too scared to speak up. That's best way to describe it, because a lot of people now are sort of worried about their job security, I suppose. And I think, too, it's more being judged by, their co-workers and, leaders within those particular workplaces.

i'm quite open, I'll actually say to him, hey, you you actually need to speak up. my wife will come home and say to me, hey, look, I think this person might

be dyslexic, what do you think? we sort of go through different things where she might say, hey, they're struggling with the, reading or writing, and then, I'll turn around to her and say, have you tried doing this with them? then...

she might implement that in the workplace and all of a sudden things start to improve. But, it's just little things like that, Nic, to be honest.

Nic (21:13)

absolutely.

So, what would be one message that you would love to leave, be it leaders or colleagues in the emergency services, to take away from this story?

Rodie (21:21)

the biggest one is look the dyslexic person sitting beside you is probably quite intelligent and actually knows what they're doing don't be afraid to ask are they okay? or give them additional time or if you think they're struggling maybe just give them a slight little prompt or Maybe a little cue

Particularly with say for example, they might have forgot to do a blood pressure You might just sneakily put the OBS kit just in front of them just stuff like that even in the office setting, I think there might be little things I might have forgotten just just Go about it nicely, sometimes they might Have thousand things going on their head and just more of a confidence thing with them So, just gradually bring the conversation up

if you do have a dyslexic employee obviously have the conversation with them say hey look let's say that you're struggling is there anything I can do to help you or support you? some people will accept the help others won't Obviously me as a manager Nic as a manager a lot of people won't accept your help but at least you've tried

If that person rejects your help, that's on them, that's not on you. Probably the main thing I want to actually leave behind for anyone who is struggling with dyslexia or dyscalculia, you are intelligent. Don't think you're not. And obviously have those goals in place. And actually keep on aiming for it.

Nic (22:42)

so turning the tables then, do you have a question for me?

Rodie (22:44)

I do. As a manager, how do you support a dyslexic person within the workplace?

Nic (22:48)

I mean you've mentioned a couple already right so for me I ensure that every team member is supported and set up to ensure that they can do their best work So for me it's getting to better understand that person individually.

sitting down with them and going, hey, how can I best support you? What supports do we need to put in place if any? So if the person came back to me and said, hey, I'm dyslexic, I'd be like, okay, how can I help you? And that might be things like Grammarly. could be your ChatGTP or Copilot or another AI to assist with writing. It could be screen readers to help them with reading a screen as opposed to having to read the screen.

itself as well or you can use things like Siri or speechify alternatively now if they're if it's in a uni setting for example not as a manager but as a friend or even myself I'm not dyslexic or not that I'm aware of but I struggle to read like lots of text

So I use things like Notebook LM. A Notebook LM gives me the capability of turning a reading into a podcast or into a video that I can then absorb in a different way of learning as opposed to having to sit and read a hundred page article that they've sent me that I need to learn before next week because that's just far too much.

Rodie (24:01)

I think that's where

technologies definitely help people with dyslexia and dyscalculia overcome things. As you said, when you're reading such a large chunk of information, it's just like, bang, it's too much.

probably i don't know if we touched on this or not earlier or not nic but probably the main thing which i sort of encounter i'm not too sure about you is like as a new employee or even you know when you get called into meetings you go into a room there's in they always have their fancy powerpoint or

different bits of information on the table for example but look...

being honest like as a dyslexic person not many people would take note because it's too much information on the page or on the on the powerpoint so for me as a dyslexic person even probably even for yourself like i'll try and make sure but you know if i'm delivering a powerpoint or even reading it there's not too much information that's one thing which i've noticed with different organizations for example they tend to just put way too much information on the powerpoints

and into handouts and then all of a sudden it just becomes like a massive jumble of information all at once and getting that information overload. So for me as a dyslexic person you know from other people you know use of flow charts and mind maps definitely help with me so I don't know if that's the same with you as well so sorry I'm sort of cutting you off a bit.

Nic (25:21)

No, You're right. So I don't like having walls of text, especially in PowerPoints. Depending on what's being presented, I like to ensure that it's broken down in a way that it's ingestible for everybody. And if that means I have to provide it to people ahead of time as well, that's something that I try and do.

As part of my agenda, I provide a clear agenda on what I'm going to be talking about in that meeting. If there's a report or a document that we'll be going through, I provide a link or a copy of that document to ensure that everyone's got the document ahead of time to review. Because it's ensuring that everybody has adequate time to be able to ingest the information before stepping into a conversation.

I struggle if someone sends me something at the last minute and then just goes, hey, I need you to go and approve this or review this. It's like, you've given me no time. need to sit and review it. I can't just approve something blindly because that's got my signature on it at the end of the day. So it's definitely important.

Rodie (26:19)

Yeah, not only that,

you need that time to process the information and that's one thing, which the dyslexic person sometimes struggles with as well, is obviously that time. So, you as you said, like, you know, when someone just goes, hey, can you read this and sign it? And you go, well, honestly, I don't any time to process it. you go, what does this actually all mean, you know? oh

you examples when you go and sign, you know, car loan or, home loan for example, if you don't read all the, the fine print and all of sudden you get the lawyer or the bank go,

you signed this, you go, you haven't had enough time to process it,

so I do have another question for you, me mate.

have you had your own struggles in the workplace, either mentally or learning wise? What supports did you use to overcome this?

Nic (27:00)

yeah, I look I've I've had many throughout my career starting out in my career

I struggled when I was on a major project to the point that I was becoming quite blunt so there was very little filter in my delivery.

and that wasn't an ideal scenario. that led to my mentor and my boss at the time kind of coming to me and going, hey, let's grab a coffee, and sitting down and going.

let's rethink about the way that you're delivering things because you're starting to burn your brand within the organization. And that kind of hit me. It was fantastic feedback to hear at the time, but it also was something that I struggled to hear at the time as well.

But I can appreciate where his thoughts were at the time. I've also had...

various scenarios throughout my career where I have struggled mentally as well. Normally for me if I'm mentally drained or I'm just struggling at the time, my tolerance for people, be it speaking over me, diminishes significantly.

And that's not ideal because I then tend to get a little bit agitated. So

I see the signs now that I'm starting to become agitated because someone is speaking over me. And typically just take myself either out of that situation or just take a pause to ensure that it doesn't get elevated beyond that as well.

Rodie (28:21)

Yeah, I think that's where it's good to sort of reflect on those things and go hey look, when it becomes too much What's my So safety point, do I need to step out of the room? I need to go have a coffee? we'll talk to a friend or what have you that's that's that's definitely the same as you and I think Look, and as you said sometimes that feedback does does hurt,

I've been in those situations myself and when you get that feedback it's sort of a bit of a slap in the face but sometimes it's a bit of a learning curve too and you turn around and go okay look I need to do things better or I need to change my approach or how I do things as well so

look with my other organisations, they've obviously got support animals and stuff like that, which has been quite effective.

Is that something which you have in your workplace

Nic (29:08)

I work from home majority of the time so if I need to I can step away and give my puppies a cuddle or just go for a walk around the block and get some fresh air. Which is good. I think one of the...

suggestions that was made to me recently when i was interviewing somebody else on the podcast was having a safe word

which I found intriguing, right? So if you know that you but heads with somebody quite regularly in the workplace, but you do it through passion, not through just sheer challenging of the norms, they set themselves up to have a safe word, so they use blueberry.

And if they ever got into that situation, they called Blueberry, they had a five minute timeout, and then they came back together and had a conversation and it was okay. Which I found was really, really cool.

But yeah, right. Look, feedback itself can be hard to hear, but at the same time, it's fantastic to have that feedback, whether it's from a mentor, whether it's from a peer, whether it's from even from a direct report, right? So as a manager, you need to be able to receive feedback, not only from your manager or from somebody else within the organization, but from your direct reports as well. And that's something that a lot of managers would probably struggle with.

It's hard to direct feedback from a direct report and I absolutely praise any direct report that is comfortable with providing direct feedback to their line manager because it's important.

Rodie (30:34)

m Definitely.

Nic (30:35)

Awesome.

Rodie, just before we finish up tonight, is there anything else you wanted to leave our listeners with?

Rodie (30:40)

Hopefully the information I've provided into dyslexia's, being beneficial to your listeners Naturally if there's any questions or things which we haven't I suppose definitely, Reach out, you know through the inclusive shift, Facebook page or whatever other platforms you're using here Nic,

hopefully we can answer those questions I'm pretty open if you if I don't answer it's probably a reason behind it and so yeah I'm more than happy to answer questions if they do come up

Nic (31:10)

Awesome, well thank you for coming on, I really appreciate it.